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  #41  
Old 11-09-2009, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 41Thermal View Post
George, how do you feel about Odyssey having the most useless warranty known to mankind and how it may stop people from buying your products?
Don't even waste your time.
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  #42  
Old 11-09-2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by karlos View Post
i'd like to know why i had to order my hub from UK because nobody sells g-sport besides for glands and plegs in spain.

also id like to have an email where i can talk to you everytime i have any issue in my bike ,thanks george for existing
That's really more of a question for our Spanish distributor Action Wheels. Some countries that dont have a huge scene yet and where there aren't that many shops, it can be very difficult for a distributor to predict demand.

g at gsport .co.uk

or

georgef at odysseybmx.com


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Originally Posted by sinkoman View Post
How can you tell if a driver bearing has shat the bed? My Primo Mix has been going on the same bearings for comming up on a year, and I noticed not too long ago that, when spun with ones fingers, one of the driver bearings makes a little inaudible *click* at a certain spot, yet spins entirely smooth. Gonna leave it till it dies, but i'm curious to know what that means.

Also, the only Gsport product i've ever owned was 20.75 sunday second wave, and I can safely say that I regret going to a fit when I upgraded to a larger frame. The fit feels beautiful for sure, hell I can also safely say that I like the geo of the fit a LOT more, but I miss that "skateboard" feel of the sunday. It was just a "bike", and I didn't give a fuck if I slammed it into a rail or nose cased it off some stairs, kinda like how skaters don't give a fuck about their skateboard.

But the fit feels more like it's "my baby". I used to ghostride my sunday in empty parking lots for fun. I'd never even think of doing that on my fit.
The cartridge bearings we use in bikes we often call "sealed", but really they are only shielded. A lot of the time it is worth looking at whether they just need a clean out and re-grease, which you can do simply by prising off the "seals" and washing out with something like WD40 and then re-packing witha good grease (though often the replacement units are so cheap that it is simpler just to put new ones in.

With a click at one point, there is always the possibility that either the inner or outer race has a crack in it, so you can inspect it for this.

When the bearing is "worn out" is a judgement call. Many people would argue that if it rolls smoothly and works well then it is fine, other people find the slightest play a huge distraction, neither is right or wrong, it's just personal.

I would pull it all apart and inspect everything and give it a good clean. You can feel each bearing individually that way and get a much better idea.

I hope this helps.

Glad you liked the Sunday frame. Jim has always wanted to shy away from being too specialised with the geometry of the main frame and to keep an emphasis on durability. For the frame to be good for street and park and trails the geometry has settled to what it is, but with more specialised frames also starting to be added to the line (like the Funday Aaron Ross and the Model D) there will be more choices as the company grows, but still with an emphasis on durability and not needing to be babied too much. A lot of people dont like the look of the waves, but they really do make a huge difference to how hard the tubes are to dent, and therefore the overall strength of the frame after a few bashes. As Chris Moeller mentions in his Q&A once a tube is significantly dented it kills the overall strength of the entire tube and therefore the entire frame. The Beer/Coke can analogy is a very clear illustration of this.


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Originally Posted by [kts] View Post
what's the time frame looking like for the release of the ratchet guard?
It should be very soon. I think we were shooting for the end of November so keep your eyes on the Dailyword for news. (sorry I cant be more specific, I will check up)

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Originally Posted by 41Thermal View Post
George, how do you feel about Odyssey having the most useless warranty known to mankind and how it may stop people from buying your products?
I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not. We do strive to have the best possible customer service, and most people seem to have a very good experience, but very occasionally people do have a frustrating experience. I fairly regularly get emails that I cant reply to because the mail server wrongly bounces them back as spam (comcast particularly) which is very frustrating, or there are other problems with mail getting to us in the first place. Generally, if you havent had a reply within two working days then please do send it again and chase up with a phone call if it still doesnt seem to be getting a reply. Sometimes, like round Interbike or another event, things can be very busy, but we will always try to do our best for you.

George
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  #43  
Old 11-09-2009, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gsport View Post
I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not. We do strive to have the best possible customer service, and most people seem to have a very good experience, but very occasionally people do have a frustrating experience. I fairly regularly get emails that I cant reply to because the mail server wrongly bounces them back as spam (comcast particularly) which is very frustrating, or there are other problems with mail getting to us in the first place. Generally, if you havent had a reply within two working days then please do send it again and chase up with a phone call if it still doesnt seem to be getting a reply. Sometimes, like round Interbike or another event, things can be very busy, but we will always try to do our best for you.

George
I wasn't being sarcastic, and as you can tell from my username, I'm a big fan of Odyssey and yours, you guys make superb products. However, I've had a terrible experience with Odyssey warranty. So bad, that I often think twice before purchasing an Odyssey product. However, it didn't stop me from purchasing a Gsport Rollcage yesterday and hope that If I have any issues, I can contact you directly instead of dealing with the Odyssey warranty department.
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  #44  
Old 11-09-2009, 09:34 PM
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^^^ Please do.

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  #45  
Old 11-10-2009, 03:30 AM
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Nother question, i'm going to take my hub apart tonight because just recently my bike has started making that aweful creaking sound like a BB bearing is blown, but I have a really good feeling that it's actually that driver bearing, because the driver is a year old, but these BB bearings are barely even a month.

I need to figure out a way to get that damned C-Clip off in the driver first. I've tried pliers before, no go, and I don't have a c-clip pliers. Any tricks to getting that thing off?

EDIT: NVM, borrowed some rly thin pliars and got it.

Last edited by sinkoman; 11-10-2009 at 10:11 AM.
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  #46  
Old 11-10-2009, 09:04 AM
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hey george, just like to say ive had my ratchet for about 6 months now and only had to take it apart once, due to my own error (i accidentaly got some thin oil through the hub seal, after a dusty days ride, which caused the bearing to get rough and gritty). its perfect, and the guide on the website on how to maintain the ratchet, it was very easy to use and understand. im also 100% HAPPY WITH my second wave, the best frame ive had. i lathed down a gland 3 to fit a fly front hub, and it worked out too, so pretty happy with that.
my question is, how many years are put into the ideas behind hubs such as the ratchet?
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  #47  
Old 11-10-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by sinkoman View Post
Nother question, i'm going to take my hub apart tonight because just recently my bike has started making that aweful creaking sound like a BB bearing is blown, but I have a really good feeling that it's actually that driver bearing, because the driver is a year old, but these BB bearings are barely even a month.

I need to figure out a way to get that damned C-Clip off in the driver first. I've tried pliers before, no go, and I don't have a c-clip pliers. Any tricks to getting that thing off?
Sorry I am not really that familiar with the Mix. I can suggest that if you take your chain off and fake pedal then if you can still reproduce the sound then it must be the BB rather than the driver.

Circlips can be a pig without circlip pliers, but they are a very common tool and well worth owning a set if you do a lot of mechanical stuff, if you pop into a garage they will probably pop the circlip out for you for free, and getting them back in without the tool is a little easier.

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Originally Posted by porkstar View Post
hey george, just like to say ive had my ratchet for about 6 months now and only had to take it apart once, due to my own error (i accidentaly got some thin oil through the hub seal, after a dusty days ride, which caused the bearing to get rough and gritty). its perfect, and the guide on the website on how to maintain the ratchet, it was very easy to use and understand. im also 100% HAPPY WITH my second wave, the best frame ive had. i lathed down a gland 3 to fit a fly front hub, and it worked out too, so pretty happy with that.
my question is, how many years are put into the ideas behind hubs such as the ratchet?
Glad you like the stuff, hearing about and seeing people riding and enjoying the parts is the ultimate in job satisfaction and really does make my day.

The Ratchet took about one and a half to two years from start of development to being on the shelf, but that was fairly fast, we have taken over 3 years on things like the new JCPC and the Freecoaster has already been in development for over 5 years and looks like taking at least another one. However, the IDEAS themselves are often things I have been thinking about for over 10 years.

Of course, once the products are out that doesnt mean we stop working on them. We try to listen to all the feedback we get and respond to the issues that thousands of different riders with thousands of different riding styles might be able to bring to light and do what we can to improve the product to work better for riders.

George

Last edited by gsport; 11-10-2009 at 10:18 AM.
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2009, 01:20 PM
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will running a shadow chain on the ratchet damage it or void the warranty?
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Originally Posted by gutstains View Post
i got nothin to prove & dont have health insurance
those are the two main reasons i'd rather stay behind the lens
if i fuck up & take a fall trying to do something for a clip, i'm in debt for a year...shits just not worth it
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:46 PM
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just got my hands on the ratchet got an amazing deal on that complete wheel you guys did with KHE. feels so good and stiff and strong. i get made fun of for having it tho, every body says it huge!! i reply by saying, naa its all good cuz ur gonna see this hub for the next 20 years by that time ull have gone through more hubs then i ever will,


i really hope this hub last like every body says it will. looing foward to having for LIFETIME.


if seems like you guys ar the only ones to use 3 springs and prawls everybody else uses a 4 or 5 or 6, any advantage?



also recomend me some good grease or lube my driver is dry as hell, the kid i bought it from completely cleaned it out all the grease and everything so now its sounds liek its rubbing all the time
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:27 PM
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so george tell me, did you play with meccano or lego as a kid?
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:53 PM
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will running a shadow chain on the ratchet damage it or void the warranty?
The V1 chain just wont fit. Period.

The V2 chain will sort of run, but will rub the shell, which isnt really a good thing. I do hear of some people running it, but I cant recommend it.

With the warranty every case is considered on it's own merits. We are generally pretty generous so it is rare to get outright refused a warranty for anything. If you smash the flanges into a ledge over and over, then it will be pretty obvious, and we arent going to want to cover it, but if your driver cracks or something then we arent going to be dicks and refuse to warranty it because your hubs shell has been painted or something that obviously didnt have anything to do with it...

This goes for ALL G-Sport and Odyssey products, we wont even refuse a warranty because you used the wrong brake blocks, or sawed off the brake mounts or something random like that.

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Originally Posted by nickydicky13 View Post
just got my hands on the ratchet got an amazing deal on that complete wheel you guys did with KHE. feels so good and stiff and strong. i get made fun of for having it tho, every body says it huge!! i reply by saying, naa its all good cuz ur gonna see this hub for the next 20 years by that time ull have gone through more hubs then i ever will,


i really hope this hub last like every body says it will. looing foward to having for LIFETIME.


if seems like you guys ar the only ones to use 3 springs and prawls everybody else uses a 4 or 5 or 6, any advantage?



also recomend me some good grease or lube my driver is dry as hell, the kid i bought it from completely cleaned it out all the grease and everything so now its sounds liek its rubbing all the time

Glad you like the hub, I dont think we did do a "complete wheel you guys did with KHE"?!? But glad you like it whatever the history.

Although the hub looks big to some people, dont confuse size with weight. We just needed a lot of space for bigger axle, bearings and drive mechanism to make it tougher, most of the space inside is air and the weight is very similar to most other popular cassette hubs. If you dont spend all your time looking at the back hub I doubt you will notice the size at all while riding...

We use three pawls which engage simultaneously because that is the correct number for stability and balance of drive. People often add more pawls to get a faster engagement (ie. using two pairs which are out of sync so you get one set or the other), but I deliberately wanted a slightly slacker engagement because I personally think it works a lot better for most people when landing fakie.

The on-line manual covers a lot of things on the Ratchet, the best bet for lube is a thin non-sticky teflon based brake CABLE lube like Tri-flow. Do NOT use chain lube, it is way too sticky and can stick the pawls down.


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Originally Posted by louisbrownmaccom View Post
so george tell me, did you play with meccano or lego as a kid?
Yes, I had both. The Xmas I got my big Meccano set, my brother managed to spill hot-chocolate into all the nuts and screws which acted like loctite and made building anything a pain in the arse, you had to screw each nut and bolt with the spanner all the way along the thread, instead of being able to spin the nut down most of the way then just nip tight.
I had a huge amount of technical lego and spent thousands of hours using it. I still have it all here and very occasionally I get it out when I need to figure out a linkage or mechanism. It is really good stuff.

George
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  #52  
Old 11-10-2009, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gsport View Post
The V1 chain just wont fit. Period.

The V2 chain will sort of run, but will rub the shell, which isnt really a good thing. I do hear of some people running it, but I cant recommend it.

With the warranty every case is considered on it's own merits. We are generally pretty generous so it is rare to get outright refused a warranty for anything. If you smash the flanges into a ledge over and over, then it will be pretty obvious, and we arent going to want to cover it, but if your driver cracks or something then we arent going to be dicks and refuse to warranty it because your hubs shell has been painted or something that obviously didnt have anything to do with it...

This goes for ALL G-Sport and Odyssey products, we wont even refuse a warranty because you used the wrong brake blocks, or sawed off the brake mounts or something random like that.
George
the reason im asking is cause i've been running the V2 chain ever since i got my ratchet and it has rubbed about 1-2 mm off. i didnt realize it was doing it until a few weeks after riding. why isnt it a good thing for it and it doesnt void the warranty? im thinking about putting on my old kmc 410h because the shadow seems to be stretching everytime i ride and my old chain is supposedly stretch-proof. does the shadow chain ever stop stretching? one last thing im just curious what your professional title is like what did you go to school for and whats your degree in?
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Originally Posted by gutstains View Post
i got nothin to prove & dont have health insurance
those are the two main reasons i'd rather stay behind the lens
if i fuck up & take a fall trying to do something for a clip, i'm in debt for a year...shits just not worth it

Last edited by Blahzee; 11-11-2009 at 12:03 AM.
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  #53  
Old 11-11-2009, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Blahzee View Post
the reason im asking is cause i've been running the V2 chain ever since i got my ratchet and it has rubbed about 1-2 mm off. i didnt realize it was doing it until a few weeks after riding. why isnt it a good thing for it and it doesnt void the warranty? im thinking about putting on my old kmc 410h because the shadow seems to be stretching everytime i ride and my old chain is supposedly stretch-proof. does the shadow chain ever stop stretching? one last thing im just curious what your professional title is like what did you go to school for and whats your degree in?
It isnt a good thing for exactly the reason you have discovered, it is very likely to rub the edge of the shell and cause some cosmetic damage and effect the ability of the seal to keep crap out (because the area it "seals" against is damaged).
No it wont effect the ability to warranty the hub for anything un-related.

Generally speaking normal chains dont actually "stretch" at all. What actually happens when people refer to a chain being "stretched" is that the pivots wear down, which makes each link seem a little longer. The metal itself should never be in a condition where the loading exceeds the yield strength.

However, with a cranked link chain (AKA half-link chain) like the Shadow, it is obviously possible for the cranked links to straighten out a little which would also have the effect of making the chain longer. Again, if the metal never exceeds it's yield stress then it shouldnt happen, but the force needed to bend the plate straighter is obviously a fraction of the force needed to stretch a conventional side plate in pure tension. When you add occasional impacts etc into the equation then it can only add to the problem.

Obviously the Shadow chain is made by a company which we are in direct competition with, so you should bear that in mind when considering my opinion of it. I am not a big fan of ANY cranked link chains, they all have to deal with this potential issue, but nor do I really like being put in the position of having to coment on it.
Personally I see no reason to ever have more than one half link in a chain; but you have to remember that the Shadow chain was developed to address a particular problem (impacts) and you should probably judge it on this rather than expecting it to be bulletproof from every aspect of loading.


I am not sure what the value of a "professional title" is. My business cards say "mechanical engineer" and I have a degree in mechanical engineering from Sheffield University.
But with a small company like Odyssey/G-Sport everyone helps out with all aspects of things, so I am quite happy to help out with anything where I can be useful, from customer emails, to getting feedback from team riders, to helping set-up the booth at Interbike or whatever.

George
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:39 PM
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do you think this will serve me well for trying doing my own hubshells or whatever small i'd like to make/modify? i saw you have one in your twitter and id like to know how it goes.

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Old 11-11-2009, 04:27 PM
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It isnt a good thing for exactly the reason you have discovered, it is very likely to rub the edge of the shell and cause some cosmetic damage and effect the ability of the seal to keep crap out (because the area it "seals" against is damaged).
No it wont effect the ability to warranty the hub for anything un-related.

Generally speaking normal chains dont actually "stretch" at all. What actually happens when people refer to a chain being "stretched" is that the pivots wear down, which makes each link seem a little longer. The metal itself should never be in a condition where the loading exceeds the yield strength.

However, with a cranked link chain (AKA half-link chain) like the Shadow, it is obviously possible for the cranked links to straighten out a little which would also have the effect of making the chain longer. Again, if the metal never exceeds it's yield stress then it shouldnt happen, but the force needed to bend the plate straighter is obviously a fraction of the force needed to stretch a conventional side plate in pure tension. When you add occasional impacts etc into the equation then it can only add to the problem.

Obviously the Shadow chain is made by a company which we are in direct competition with, so you should bear that in mind when considering my opinion of it. I am not a big fan of ANY cranked link chains, they all have to deal with this potential issue, but nor do I really like being put in the position of having to coment on it.
Personally I see no reason to ever have more than one half link in a chain; but you have to remember that the Shadow chain was developed to address a particular problem (impacts) and you should probably judge it on this rather than expecting it to be bulletproof from every aspect of loading.


I am not sure what the value of a "professional title" is. My business cards say "mechanical engineer" and I have a degree in mechanical engineering from Sheffield University.
But with a small company like Odyssey/G-Sport everyone helps out with all aspects of things, so I am quite happy to help out with anything where I can be useful, from customer emails, to getting feedback from team riders, to helping set-up the booth at Interbike or whatever.

George
good to know, im probably goint to get a regular chain being i dont ever do sprocket grinds/stalls. i was thinking about getting the KMC k710 kool chain, what do you recommend and ride? thank you for your time and help, i appreciate it.
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Originally Posted by gutstains View Post
i got nothin to prove & dont have health insurance
those are the two main reasons i'd rather stay behind the lens
if i fuck up & take a fall trying to do something for a clip, i'm in debt for a year...shits just not worth it

Last edited by Blahzee; 11-11-2009 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:09 PM
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do you think this will serve me well for trying doing my own hubshells or whatever small i'd like to make/modify? i saw you have one in your twitter and id like to know how it goes.

That looks pretty limited to me. There is no screw cutting and it doesnt even look like you can set up an angled traverse for the tool.

If you have the space and good access, then look around for old second hand machines in your area. Schools and colleges often replace old kit when it has a lot of life left in it and it perhaps hasnt that much use (though often it can be ragged). Most of this type of machine is made to last and most things can be fixed fairly easily.

I only have a little lathe because my workshop is in the cellar and whatever tools I have I have to strip down to small parts to carry down the narrow steps and re-assemble. I want to build a wooden shed at ground level soon so I can bring in bigger machines.

Alternatively just look for evening classes at local colleges etc, there you can get access to really good machines and some fairly knowledgeable help.

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Originally Posted by Blahzee View Post
good to know, im probably goint to get a regular chain being i dont ever do sprocket grinds/stalls. i was thinking about getting the KMC k710 kool chain, what do you recommend and ride? thank you for your time and help, i appreciate it.
I run a 710 too, however I never bash it. If you arent going to hit it then the 710 is good, generally speaking the KMC 510 is a good bet at the moment.

George
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:27 PM
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when my stem broke it broke my compression bolt on my odyssey forks. where do i get another?
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:10 AM
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how can my sprocket bend if i never hit it on anything, could it be a twisted frame? can a twisted frame do damage to any other parts?
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Originally Posted by gutstains View Post
i got nothin to prove & dont have health insurance
those are the two main reasons i'd rather stay behind the lens
if i fuck up & take a fall trying to do something for a clip, i'm in debt for a year...shits just not worth it
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:21 AM
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when my stem broke it broke my compression bolt on my odyssey forks. where do i get another?
Just phone up, we can replace the bolt under warranty or you can buy a new one if you dont want the hassle of sending the old one in.


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how can my sprocket bend if i never hit it on anything, could it be a twisted frame? can a twisted frame do damage to any other parts?
You could theoretically bend a sprocket from pedalling hard enough, and a twisted frame would make this very slightly more likely, but we are talking the difference between really really really unlikely and just really really unlikely...

A twisted frame might make you more likely to bend the rear axle, or even hold the rear axle in a slight bend which would unltimately cone out the hub shell bearing seats... but more importantly riding a twisted frame will mess up your riding and eventually make riding a straight bike feel weird...

George
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Old 11-21-2009, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gsport View Post
Just phone up, we can replace the bolt under warranty or you can buy a new one if you dont want the hassle of sending the old one in.




You could theoretically bend a sprocket from pedalling hard enough, and a twisted frame would make this very slightly more likely, but we are talking the difference between really really really unlikely and just really really unlikely...

A twisted frame might make you more likely to bend the rear axle, or even hold the rear axle in a slight bend which would unltimately cone out the hub shell bearing seats... but more importantly riding a twisted frame will mess up your riding and eventually make riding a straight bike feel weird...

George
uh oh, will it mess up the ratchet too? im waiting for the new barcodes to come out but joe hasnt answered my emails.
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Originally Posted by gutstains View Post
i got nothin to prove & dont have health insurance
those are the two main reasons i'd rather stay behind the lens
if i fuck up & take a fall trying to do something for a clip, i'm in debt for a year...shits just not worth it
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